tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post7831719122785727509..comments2023-04-12T04:13:00.415-05:00Comments on Tom's Thoughts: Getting a Handle on the DebateTomGrayhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06578393509662485657noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post-39993265351271646982006-10-15T13:06:00.000-05:002006-10-15T13:06:00.000-05:00former member,
Just a point of data - I have neve...former member,<br /><br />Just a point of data - I have never been ordained as an elder or minister. I was ordained as a deacon about 20 years ago. I'm definately sitting in the pews with the rest.<br /><br />Tom,<br /><br />I hope that you will endeavour to keep the comments balanced as to message while you are respecting tone. What I'm trying to say is that if you receive 25% of comments that disagree with you, that you try to keep the posted comments to be about 25% in opposition. Otherwise, you'd be practicing censorship.<br /><br />It's your blog, and you can do what you want. It won't be a conversation, though, if your editing of comments ends up editing out points of view.Mark Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06744333045874641836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post-27437485043459117152006-10-14T21:13:00.000-05:002006-10-14T21:13:00.000-05:00Mark,
It's my idea of provocative, in the thought...Mark,<br /><br />It's my idea of provocative, in the thoughtful sense, although there is some truth in what I said I think, what I said is exaggeration, misinformation and divisive. <br /><br />Those last 3 qualities are what concern me about my "side" in this time of trouble. It is mostly borrowed trouble based on exaggeration, misinformation and divisiveness it seems to me. I have a lot to say about it, or maybe questions about it, but it is probably mostly wrong and exaggeration and would result in divisiveness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post-19203041571129729552006-10-14T18:07:00.000-05:002006-10-14T18:07:00.000-05:00Dear Cameron,
Presbyterian polity is built on a b...Dear Cameron,<br /><br />Presbyterian polity is built on a balance of elders and clergy in all governing bodies above the session (presbyteries, synods, general assembly). In fact, if an imbalance occurs, PCUSA polity requires that there are more elders than clergy.<br /><br />On the session, the imbalance is extreme. There are always more elders than ministers on the session.<br /><br />The clergy do not and cannot take over the governance of the church unless the laity choose to let them.<br /><br />I always encourage sessions to elect continuing commissioners to presbytery for the sake of continuity of presence and participation in the decision-making of the church. I tell them explicitly that if they do not participate in presbytery meetings and committees, they are abdicating to the clergy.<br /><br />And that's what this [duhn duhn duuhhnn] clergy person does.<br /><br />How about instead of blaming clergy for the ills of the church, you volunteer the next time presbytery, synod, and GA ask for nominations to fill committees and leadership positions? How about you encourage other elders and deacons to do likewise? And how about you thank your pastors for being so willing to work on the local and presbytery levels (and sometimes synod and GA) in order to help keep your congregation in touch with what's going on?<br /><br />Don't assume all clergy are grasping for power. Most of us find ourselves in leadership positions because no one else will do it. The same goes for elders and deacons I know who are faithfully active on different levels of church governance.<br /><br />Yours in Christ,<br />Mark (not Smith)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post-90174096612923234002006-10-14T11:46:00.000-05:002006-10-14T11:46:00.000-05:00I've been reading and following your blog for some...I've been reading and following your blog for some time now. I suspect there are many "lurkers" like me -- a member of a conservative PCUSA church which is at odds with PUP and the PCUSA leadership and is struggling with what to do. I'm following this blog to see how this situation plays out, and am praying that your church emerges unscathed.amomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00862313105487511110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post-24273703974381111962006-10-14T11:12:00.000-05:002006-10-14T11:12:00.000-05:00Former member,
I think members and elders are ver...Former member,<br /><br />I think members and elders are very much in step but there is a group within the PCUSA which exerts control in our higher government that is 5000% above its representation in our Church body; with opinions on ordination/fidelity, for instance, that are 100% out of whack with our members/elders opinions. I think this could be one source of why our members/elders feel misrepresented at GA or even Synod and Presbytery. <br /><br /><br />That group is.......[duhn duhn duuhhnn].......our clergy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post-3745888717997127102006-10-14T11:00:00.000-05:002006-10-14T11:00:00.000-05:00Greetings:
I would like to offer a comment to "Fo...Greetings:<br /> I would like to offer a comment to "Former member". There are nmerous Elders and Lay leaders that are struggling with the very issues that are conflicting the PCUSA. I am an Elder in the PCUSA, more importantly I am a servant of our Lord. My obligation To God and my congregation is to care for the spiritual well being and confess the truth in The Word that our savior Jesus Christ proclaims. Some of the topics relate directly to protecting that truth in which we are all obligated to obey. Please know that we are right there in the pews with you.<br /><br /> In His love,<br /> Mr.EMr. Ehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04598130750174045996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post-44890110216445850452006-10-14T10:31:00.000-05:002006-10-14T10:31:00.000-05:00Tom...
I agree with your last couple of blogs... ...Tom...<br /> I agree with your last couple of blogs... this site to me was never meant to argue over and over again every little detail. The idea of the blog was to keep the church members abreast of any changes and to allow a forum for other PCUSA members to talk openly. All of these suspicions and arguements aren't helping anyone. I would say to the people that aren't members of the Kirk of the Hills... help us through these interesting times, or go throw your unconstructive daggers at someone else. (my humble opinion). thanksAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post-85147703490172376322006-10-14T07:09:00.000-05:002006-10-14T07:09:00.000-05:00Tom, I have noticed that most of the comments on ...Tom, I have noticed that most of the comments on this blog are from the professionals, Elders or lay leaders. People who have climbed the ladder tend to lose touch with the body of members who are seeking the Truth of Christ's message. Not everyone is ready for heavy duty theological politics. We are looking for compassion, care and forgiveness as we follow Christ with our personal understanding. This leads us into territory that may be dangerous, not a cocoon of safety. We have to trust our leaders and at this point that trust(at least for me) is stained.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29364304.post-73912902346691558992006-10-13T20:23:00.000-05:002006-10-13T20:23:00.000-05:00Tom, I have not read the blog for sometime, but go...Tom, I have not read the blog for sometime, but got on and read the last few days. I have said to you at the Kirk and will say it again, You are stating your position well. Your language is easy to understand and I appreciate your patience and plain-ness of speech. Hang in there, my family and I stand with you and the Kirk during this time.<br />Deanna InclanUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06669663388011666320noreply@blogger.com